Educational Research, Statistics, Reports, and Commentary from Moscow, Idaho
Absolutely amazing. I was not a math whiz but I stayed with the pack or caught up in the areas that I had problems. Too bad that students can’t individually excel and be praised for their excellence. Just out of curiosity, how many kids in the sixth grade will be able to accurately judge what their career focus will be? I know lots of university students who don’t really have a grasp of their career focus. Yet our government schools would want 12 year old kids to pick an education track. Amazing, simply amazing.
Having anyone go through "diversity training" is cruel and unusual form of torture and should be considered a crime against humanity. The cold howling winds of Siberia would sound like sweet music to someone having to sit through one of those sessions.
Chant "I really, really like myself, so I must be doing something right."
Dale: I hope you realize that this young womens situation is not typical of schools in Moscow or even in Idaho. Misinformation and deception must be strong points hammered home in Anselm House. Tim
We hear reports of this sort of stuff all the time, from all over the USA, and the performance of students in American public schools has, on average, done nothing but decline for decades. Deception in Anselm House? I think self-deception in Tim's house is more like it.
What a hoot! Tim, be sure to wipe the flecks of foam off your lips when post.
Rumor has it, and emails I have seen from educators, is that Smiley is preparing to announce his canidacy in the not so distant future. I would be surprised if Luna actually won a republican primary, I don't think his party even agrees with his views.
Timmy, I didn't see your comment until now. Where did I say that this situation was from Moscow or Idaho? Dale
In a certain sense, this kind of a ranking is not very meaningful. If the kids in the dumbest state were getting adequate educations, it wouldn't matter: somebody has to be at the bottom of every list. But we know they are not getting adequate educations. How about the ones at the top of the list? Are they getting adequate educations? I think not. So maybe this should have been titled "Dumb and Dumber."
Regarding States Ranked: Smart to Dumb, Jack Wenders responds: I find little substance in this ranking,...
We do this same thing in order to get out of college too. Except our porfolio leads to a job interview and a salary. The idea is great if it is done right and the students know about it well in advance, like four years while they are students. This would encourage students to perform well in class, spend time boosting their resume by volunteering, and being good citizens in general. It might work, at least it gives students an opportunity to express themselves in a unique manner.
Boy, the hits just keep on coming for the College of Education. I guess sexual harrassment isn't covered on the dispositions.
"He is a business man and served on the school board in southern Idaho." So basically people should consider Luna as an educational consultant, not an educator.
Easy. It's new math. This is the new math that we have been reading about for years. Now at MSD.
It was the baby boomers (1945-1965) that started the big home schooling push in the late 70's and early 80's. That much I know.
Well, it needs to be kept in mind that he is generalizing, but with that caveat in mind I would say his analysis is not all that far off the mark. At the same time, his analysis is not a Christian analysis, and therefore it cannot be expected to truly hit the mark. Part of the problem is the entire milieu of political correctness and social engineering that taints everything on the landscape. Education is taking place in this context, and education is being used as one of the primary vehicles for promotion of these societal changes. This is a huge difference from the traditional role of education. Traditionally, maintaining contact with and carrying forward the legacy of the Christian past was a major aspect of education, but today the aims of education in this regard are to sever ties with the Christian past and to overturn that legacy. In short, modern education has a huge idolatrous streak running through it. Any impartation of the 3Rs and fundamental cognitive skills is being done in this kind of environment, and it is not a set of conditions that facilitates the impartation of those skills. I attribute this interference to the fact that over time people become dumb like their idols. That is what we would expect from what the Bible teaches. I was born in 1960, and as a young adult I met some people who were born maybe two or three years after me, and these people were home schooled. In fact, their parents were taken to court by the State of Ohio and it was only at the level of the Ohio Supreme Court that their right to homeschool their children was recognized. (Later the prosecutor of that case came to the parents and asked for help in homeschooling his own kids!) This was even written up in a book called "Ohio's trojan horse: a warning to christian schools everywhere," by Alan N. Grover. I am not sure but I think R. J. Rushdoony may have helped out with this case, even though the parents in this case were Evangelical Christians of a much different stripe than Rushdoony. It was interesting too that at first, these parents met with severe opposition within their own denomination (the father was a pastor) and fought this battle without any support from the denomination. But by the time the case has reached the level of the Ohio State Supreme Court, the denomination had come around to support the parents. I'm digressing here but my point is that if what I am talking about here is in any way representative of what was going on, Levine's timing is off. It was not parents born after 1961, but rather parents raising children born after 1961 who propelled the various things he mentions.
I have an ethnic Chinese friend, a naturalized citizen of Japan, who was home schooled (no diploma from anywhere that anyone would recognize) and was enrolled in college via remote learning (correspondence) when he was hired by Citibank to help them with a one-year project. The one-year project is now over but Citibank is very much set on keeping my friend on their staff permanently. He can perform all the required jobs (and they keep on kicking him further and further upstairs as he continues to show greater competence) as well as any of the MBAs they have on their staff. My friend's original plan was to get an undergrad degree via correspondence and then go to grad school in the USA for his MBA. But he may end up never going back into academia. What's the point? He has to learn new stuff every day, and none of it is stuff they can teach you at the university. And he already new how to think critically on account of his Bible-based home schooling. BTW I'm a college dropout but that never kept me from getting any job. In my profession (securities) they only care about how well you can perform; what is on your diploma and resume matters not. A former president of Salomon Brothers was a fellow who had originally been hired by the firm to do menial tasks. You want to know something? If companies were allowed to give prospective employees IQ tests, the bottom would fall out of the college education market. I don't think IQ is the only indicator of future success (far from it) but it is at least as good, if not better than, a diploma from a modern university as an indicator. And it is a great deal cheaper and less time consuming. Basically, from the perspective of industry, the universities perform (indirectly) the sort of screening that would get a company into hot water legally if it tried to do such screening directly.
And then again, many companies do not take Vox Day's approach. A young woman I know recently graduated from a state university and happily applied for a lucrative position with a company that hires only college graduates, a company that she really wanted to work for. She was a smash hit with the first two interviewers who insisted that she was a perfect fit with the company, but ran into overt hostility in the third. "You are too intelligent. You would want to do things your own way, not the way I tell you to do them," she was told by the district manager, who is a single mom. She reassured the woman that intelligence not only gives her the capability to see better ways to do things, but also to know that she has to run her ideas by the boss first. No dice. Well, she ended up getting a job that rewards creativity and initiative, does not require a degree, and she is on the fast track to management and other great side financial perks. I have a friend who graduated with a degree in math about 25 years ago, and has been working in the software industry since then. He wanted to relocate, so he applied to a different company where he would do the same work that he is expert at, but he found out that they only hire people who have computer degrees. Nothing else matters. Over the years I have been amazed at the extremly narrow profiles, like this, that companies use to hire employees. Can anyone tell me why they do this?
I was in high school nearly 30 years ago, but back then I could already see the trend. The older teachers were much better material -- not just better on account of their experience, but they were much better educated and clearly had higher raw intelligence. I have met too many public school teachers who could not spell to save their lives and who could not critically think their way out of a wet paper bag.
I don't know the details on Proposition 74, but I find it hard to imagine that it would even come close to eliminating the labyrinth of procedures and requirements that must be fulfilled before a teacher can be fired, even for the most egregious offenses. More than likely, even after Proposition 74 passes, the teaching profession will still be the "safest" place to be an incompetent at one's job. Taking a step in the right direction is a good thing, but it should not be confused with having arrived at where one needs to be.
Why do athletes and entertainers make so much more than teachers? That question clearly implies a criticism of popular values -- "Why are people so stupid as to place higher value on entertainment than on education?" And part of the answer to that is, "because of the cumulative effects of several generations of public schooling in the inculcation of modern popular culture and its peculiar set of values." My kids are home schooled. They probably don't even know the names of Pitt, Iverson, Combs, and the Olsens. And they have not, and will not, contribute so much as one cent to those peoples' incomes, because they have no interest in modern American popular culture, except perhaps to criticize it. Popular culture makes its money off of the products of the modern public school system. The marketing is tailored to same. So if a modern-day educator does not like what he sees, he needs to reconsider the sort of people that he as an educator is turning out as consumers of culture.
Dale, I am curious what you think the proper alternative is? I know NSA gives its students a strong "well read liberal arts education", something I regret receiving little of at UI. However, there are a lot of fields where the "vo-tech" university is the only way to go. To be an architect, you need to pass several diffecult industry certification exams. Do be allowed to take the exams, you need an architecture degree from a univesity. So, if someone is excited about becoming an architect, should their higher education be extended by another 2+ years to make sure they are also well versed in the classics? Maybe, but maybe not, eh?
"we have today is mostly graduate trade schools or graduate Vo-Tech schools" Depending on the area of study, it's debatable as to whether we have even this in many universities.
It used to be that students entered college-liberal arts-at a younger age, already more fully prepared than the 18 years olds that enter NSA. After achieving their BA, at age 18 to 20, they learned their trade, such as law. When it works that way, you don't spend two extra years of your adult life learning the classics, and you are prepared to live a culturally valuable life. Because of the revival of classical education, it won't be long before many of the teenaged students of today will compare more favorably to the students of the 1600's and 1700's, and get to start college or university at age 16 or earlier. There is nothing magic about age 18, it is just a rut we have wandered into.
Low-income students generally cost more money because of the programs that are offered to them through the district. Boise has numerous schools who offer free or reduced breakfast and lunch. Now Boise has numerous schools that offer free breakfast to EVERY student EVERY morning. This increase in food consumption probably costs some money, and some of that money is probably from the $2,100 that Jack speaks about. If Boise has smaller schools than Meridian then they probably have fewer students in each school. However, the student population is similar for both districts, thus giving Boise more school buildings to operate. The more buildings Boise has, the more power/water/sewer/trash and other bills it must pay. If Boise had fewer school buildings then the cost would probably drop signifigantly. Also, most of Boises buildings are signifigantly older than that of Meridian. An older building costs more to keep warm and cool. An older building is also generally more difficult to remodel or repair compared to a new school building. The more special education students also increases actual spending. The average special education student probably sees at least three or four different specialists in any given day. Thus if a school is dominated with multiple special ed students, they probably need more specialists to aid in student instruction providing that more one-on-one time is needed with special education students. Jack makes some good points in his rant, but has no idea what actually takes place in the average classroom in the Boise district. I would love to see Jack and all the other opposers to the Public School System spend a day in one of my Phys Ed classes trying to teach a few lessons.
Get your facts straight! Jean Lovelace is an Elementary Principal and a damn good one at that! http://www.boiseschools.org/schools/whitney.html Maybe people should discredit everything Jack states as fact if he can't get some simple facts straight. If you can't figure out that Jean is a principal and not a teacher then how can you get numbers correct?
Jack, Where did you get these numbers? I always thought that Potlatch was a threadbare school district. At $12k/student that's more than schools on the east coast. "Jean Lovelace is an Elementary Principal and a damn good one at that!" IMHO, Even if she is a principal $100,792 is a bit excessive.
If Nick Gier is wrong then everything he says must be wrong according to kirkers. If Jack is wrong then using the same logic, everything Jack says is wrong.
And even then, the figure that Jack uses for Jean's salary is mroe than likely wrong too since based upon the BSD salary schedule for administrators, nothing comes even close to that six-figure sum. Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. http://www.boiseschools.org/jobs/salary/02.html
Jack Wenders responds to Rigsby: The spreadsheet I received from Mr. Dan Hollar of at Boise School District, on line 993, coded Jean Lovelace's "Assignment" as code number 0010, which is elementary teacher. The code for elementary principal is 4210. If there is an error, it lies with BSD, not me. So, if she is indeed an elementary principal, I should revise my statement to read "Jean Lovelace is an underpaid Elementary School Principal who makes $79,043 in base pay, $5900 in current benefits, $15,849.21 in deferred benefits, for a total compensation of $100,792.21 for 207 days work."
Tim writes: "If Nick Gier is wrong then everything he says must be wrong according to kirkers. If Jack is wrong then using the same logic, everything Jack says is wrong." No, no one said that. Heck, even a stopped clock is right twice a day... Dale
Hey, all things belong to God, or to god, as the case may be. The State has for many years arrogated to itself powers that it has no right to. It is trying to replace God, and part of that is the notion that we are government property. This decision is just the most recent of many that reaffirm that. Our response, at minimum, should be to pull our children out of the public schools.
And still the majority of Christian parents offer up their children on the statist alter of Molech. The state plainly claims priority over the parent when it comes to teaching kids about sex? How much more bald does the wake-up call have to be than this? How much more dramatic does it need to get before Christain parents finally pull their kids out of the State Indoctrination Network? (SIN).
hmm.. Sounds like France.. (not what's going on now, just in "normal" times)
The teacher probably had an IQ of 90.
Why would you think that the teacher in question has an above-average IQ among public school teachers?
I always like to give the benefit of the doubt!
It also gives a whole new meaning to PhD: "pretty highly devalued."
A very good post, thanks.
In other words, less bang for your buck is more bang for your buck. Thanks for the Orwellian quote. Maybe products of the modern public school system are nodding their heads in agreement, but I don't buy it.
If you are not adding value, then you are just baby-sitting. And $9,000 per year is a lot to pay for baby-sitting. While on the one hand, there are limits to how much value you can add, on the other hand, it is a problem that probably nobody has ever actually run into, at least with children of normal learning ability or better.
One of my friends taught at a private classical school in Colorado for five years. She said that the parents were always complaining to the teachers that the behavioral standards-basic respect for the teacher and classmates-were too scrict, and that the school work for little Johnny was "too hard". She was stunned that even these parents wanted the curriculum dumbed down because they didn't want to spend their time overseeing their kid's homework and assignments.
Our city lawyer said that schools do not have a right to exist in the downtown area. What is good for Atlas Boys School is good for the Moscow Alternative High School. That is really backwards isn't it. Intoleristas will have their way.
What's the chances that Lovelace's data is completely wrong in the spreadsheet? Her salary is more in line with an elementary teacher. Best, Dale
Actually, this ruling makes perfect sense. In any context, the burden of proof or pursuasion starts with the person making the complaint. This is not a parents' rights case at all.
Greg, Thanks for the comment. Don't forget: many things get posted over here that we agree with and that we disagree with. This is more of a clearing house of information than a critique (either positive or negative). best, Dale
I'm for Alito. Beside the great first name, he seems like a man of conviction. I am just hoping conservatives don't get burned like we did with past appointees.
Wiebe hit the nail on the head. That the students don't have the ability to question a ridiculous answer is the saddest part. The inability to THINK hampers them in all areas of life, not just in math. I remember the day New Math hit my school. I was in the 7th grade. The teacher announced to us that he had to stop teaching math and tell us stupid stuff, and he apologised at length to us for it. He launched into a discussion of imaginary dots and planes (flat things), with no explanation of how it was supposed to relate to anything. The whole thing was so completely out of context to the math we had always done that we students were amazed at this turn of events, and baffled by what we were expected to do with it, and the reason for it. I don't remember any more math from that year, and that was the end of New Math for me, as I went into Algebra the next year. But I fond memories of 7th grade English class because that is the year I learned to diagram sentences, beautiful, long, hairy sentences, and I loved every minute of it. (My own kids started diagraming sentences in the first grade). A lot of kids entering college these days have never even heard of nouns and verbs. Sad. We just need to throw more money at the system and all these problems will go away, right?
I like the exam. BTW HSP-11 is wrong, the answer is 26.
Congratulations to the Logos team.
If learning were solely based on the lecture, then yes the university is obsolete. However, there is an apprenticeship that enables one to become a scholar, e.g. application of the scientific method, problem solving, how to accumulate more knowledge in rapidly advancing fields, how to think critically. These extra-lecture aspects and are what modern research universities are all about. In my field, chemistry, one can’t become a chemist by listening to lectures; only by conducting research can one become a chemist. This is true of many fields. Also, too much credence is given new audio/visual technologies every time one appears. Universities by their own reckoning should have been the obsolete by the appearance of TV in the 1940’s, certainly by the videotape era starting in the 1970’s.
Frank is definitely right -- at least with regard to certain fields of endeavor, primarily in the hard sciences and applied sciences. But just as homeschooling can replace conventional bricks-and-mortar schoolhouses to a considerable degree, the modern bricks-and-mortar university is in the process of being obviated. I studied in tiny classes at St. John's College and Cornell where I enjoyed discussions that would be hard to replicate online with current technology. (I'll set aside the fact that their ability to educate was limited by the non-Christian milieu at those schools, as that is a separate issue.) But if the class size is larger than, say, 15 people, the benefits of being able to participate in a discussion fall off rapidly. (In fact, about half again smaller is closer to the ideal.) So this means that just about all undergraduate classes at just about all liberal arts and humanities departments are candidates for elimination. I know several students who are doing all their undergraduate work over the Internet and who will attend a bricks-and-mortar graduate school. That seems to me to be a much more sensible allocation of resources -- with the caveat, as Frank pointed out, that the approach is not equally suited to all subjects of study.
Amazing. Simply amazing. Fewer widgets that cost more and more and more and more and more and more.
"veni,vidi,vici" ... We toast you...Here's to academic excellence... Bill J
". . . the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel" Those are pretty strong words, but applicable. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. Truly responsible philanthropy and charitable giving are difficult to achieve. People can do a lot of harm by giving money to the wrong people, or giving in the wrong way. Church oversight of a university is a good thing in this context. The Southern Baptists' impending severance of ties with Mercer is a good example of the sort of discipline that is needed, although a more proactive approach, to prevent the kind of problems that Mercer has experienced, would have been far better. If I had a lot of money and wanted to use it to aid higher education, I would set up a scholarship foundation separate from any university or college. I would examine the students and give aid to those who qualify. Such an approach requires more effort and is more difficult to implement than simply pulling out my checkbook and writing a check for $100 million. But anything less than that is simply irresponsible. The givers are naive if they simply trust the universities to use that money for good. Even philanthropic foundations have a history of being corrupted and perverted, especially those without a distinctly Christian conscience. The vast wealth of Rockefeller, Ford, and Carnegie has been put to many evil uses (along with many good uses) by their respective foundations, despite "the best of intentions."
This is wonderful for NSA and Moscow. NSA is one of Moscow's pride and joys.
This is a fantastic step forward for NSA. Congratulations to NSA. Another positive factor in our community.
This is like comparing apples to oranges. Yes both sets of students are living in Moscow. Both sets are students in grades K-12. These students probably study a lot of the same things too. However, many differences are present when you compare Moscow Charter to the Moscow School District. First of all, the student to teacher ratio is probably a little bit different between the two schools. MSD students probably face a higher student to teacher ratio than those at MCS. Second, parent support is probably a lot larger in each classroom at MCS than it is at a comparable classroom in the MSD. Parents make a huge difference in how well a child is educated and whether or not their children perform well. Think of the times when the children go home from school and don't have a mom or dad read with them every night. Now compared this to the child who goes home at night and has mom or dad read with them and help them with homework. Some of the students in the MSD probably don't get much support at home from parents and some students probably also don't have parents that are active at their school. Now students at MCS probably have more parental support both at home and at school. Third, look at the socially-economic status of students at MCS compared to students in the MSD. I could bet that students at MCS on average come from higher than normal income families than students in the MSD. It might cost $9,000 per year to send a child to public school, but parents are not writing a 9,000 dollar check in August to send their kids to school. The debt is spread throughout. Yes, most charter schools are probably more efficient and are less expspensive to run. But where do the students go to school when all of the charter schools have kicked them out? Think of this scenario, a third grade student in your PE class gets upset about losing her cell phone because she was playing games during PE time. The teacher takes it away after asking her to put it in her coat that is over by the door out of the way. When another student takes the cell phone out midway through class, the third grade student proceeds to put her hands around her classmates throat. Do you want this student in your charter school? Which charter school best fits her needs? Comparing these two seperate populations is like comparing my buddy Jeret "Speedy" Peterson, the olympic skiier, to me an average skiier with the same number of years experience. Jeret and I both are 23-24. Jeret and I both ski and have since we were ten. Jeret and I are both male. Yet Jeret receives more one on one attention and instruction, has more money than me, and more parental support than I do for skiing. Seems logical. Tim P.S. This rant is in no way a slam against Moscow Charter School. I thoroughly enjoy what MCS has done over the years and would even send my kids there for instruction, if I had any. MCS is an excellent school with an excellent staff.
NSA has national affirmation of its quality, and the local yokels have made monkeys of themselves trying to run NSA down, and out of town. We are lucky to have them here. Who else has a college based on Harvard in 1642? NSA has put Moscow on the map.
Luna is a moron, period. He wants to privatize education yet he is running for the head of PUBLIC instruction. All he can do is look at NCLB and quote directly from the DOE. This guy has no original thoughts of his own.
Maybe you should make a post about using copyrighted materials for your own interests. Seems to me that the bible says something about thou shall not steal. Does this not apply to those associated with Christ Church? Maybe kirkers are above the law after all. CopyrightKing
Dale, it's for the children. The teachers don't go to school for the sake of the children.
Yes, I know of other professions where this happens. Several months ago southern California had exceptionally good surfing conditions. Managers and other higher ups from all the professions, guys by the foreign sports car load, were taking a leave day.
Steve McClure’s editorial is the most rational summation of what I have observed over my past seven months in Latah County concering the presence of schools in downtown Moscow. Your readers should know further about the front page of the same edition of the Daily News, where there is an article on the same subject: “Downtown zoning decision could follow public hearing.” Read the article and you will see a perfect example of one of those that McClure refers to as hijacking the zoning code to pursue their own agenda. Here are excerpts from the article concerning Rosemary Huskey: • “I just believe very strongly we have good zoning laws on the books,” said Rosemary Huskey, one of those questioning the operation of Atlas School downtown. • Huskey questioned the validity of the parking study [referring to the unofficial parking survey completed by NSA students and staff]. “ The parking should absolutely be away from downtown,” she said, adding the students could hike downtown. “They should be miles away” she said. • In response to Bob Hieronymus’ comment encouraging the council “..to grandfather in both NSA and the alternative high school”: Huskey disagrees, “I don’t want to see schools in downtown Moscow,” she said. “I’ll be happy when it all gets settled.” Huskey’s comment that they “…could hike downtown” and should be “...miles away” shows her spitefulness, and further destroys her credibility. She is no guardian angel of the Moscow zoning code. Instead, her fangs are showing, as they routinely do on this matter. My only disappointment with McClure’s opinion piece is that he doesn’t look further into the shallow case being made against Atlas School. I believe if he did he would see an injustice being committed there also. Huskey’s pretense of an argument that she is only concerned for the “safety” of the children is balderdash! There are more kids in town going to movies, taking dancing lessons, visiting Hogkins, or going to the Farmer’s Market than the 12 to 15 kids getting lessons from 8 in the morning to noon five days a week. The kids are utilizing empty space part time in what already is a multi-usage facility. This never has been about safety but their perceived linkage to Christ Church. ATLAS must appear to be an easy target since the zoning people seem only want to lump ATLAS in the category of a “school” so it can be dismissed out of hand. The just solution to ATLAS would be to grandfather them also, and focus on the spirit of the law that would appropriately seek to dissuade any otherwise meaningful size “school” from entering the CBD hereafter.
Probably little to none. Had you been paying attention to Boise over the last ten to fifteen years, it has kind of exploded with growth, growth that in some opinion has actually changed the way Boise appears. Now everywhere you go in the newer development areas, you see Lowes, Home Depot, Ross, Office Depot, Old Navy, and many other national chain type stores. Gone are the new mom and pop stores that once made Boise a pleasure place to shop. With that growth has come BSU growing and expanding. They built a campus in Canyon County, hold classes inconjunction with ISU, and pretty much has been forced to expand because of Micron and other tech firms in the area. The doctoral addition and the growth of BSU has nothing to do with Moscow or the perceived no-growth attitude that Dale has accused so many of having. The growth is because BSU has been forced to grow to develop a more credible university. UI is still the premiere public school in Idaho and a degree from Idaho is worth more than a degree from BSU in the eyes of employers. And a degree from Idaho is deffinatly worth more than a degree from NSA. BSU is a transient school and a commuter school. Most of their students are non-traditional and most of their students don't start and finish there. Come on Dale, get your head out of BSU's ass.
Seven months, wow you must be an expert on local politics.
Moscow was already on the map. Have you forgotten about UI's land grant staus? What about topless carwashes? Maybe UI's engineering program? Or the Shroud of Urine? Is there a map that only kirkers get to see where Moscow is not on it?
Actually Tim, it doesn't take much to recognize bullies when you see them...by the way, I have been visiting Moscow for the past five years, have family here, and am well aware of what is going on here. Thanks anyway. Bill J
Should the alternative high school students also have to park miles away and hike in? Should the Moscow High School students also have to hike in from miles around? (Actually, it would probably do them some good.) I thought safety was a big issue here....
U of I's liberal arts don't hold a candle to NSA. And what's more, in 20 years NSA's liberal arts will be even better and U of I's will be even worse.
Question #1 was also my question when I first saw the news article quoting Terry Beregson. But why ask questions of govt educators and their supporters when they have the reasoning abilities of Dufflepuds?
This move is to accommodate Micron. You may have a point insofar as anti-growth attitudes here in North Idaho. Every time I mention that we should encourage Micron, HP, other California techies to build research facilities here (as opposed to fab plants), or C'dA I get a collective hiss from my colleagues. The idea of a quaint university town is very mid-20th century. If we (UI) aren’t seen as contributing to the state economy, we will wither.
Dale and Jack: Before you speak against these proposed schools, maybe you should take a journey through the ones they will replace. Try living in the neighborhoods where these schools are located. Try talking to the kids who will benefit from these new schools and see if you can understand their language. Try not to cry when you notice that there is snow outside and all these kids have on is a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals, and thats because thats all their parents can afford, or actually parent since most of these kids come from single parent homes. Live in my neighborhood and see what I see on a daily basis. You don't think that these schools are a good idea, try teaching in them. I would love to see Dale and Jack pull into any of these neighborhoods in a Mercedes or BMW, these kids would probably throw rocks at you. They deserve these schools more than anyone else right now as schools is a place they call home. I have a student who gets dropped off on the front steps of the school everyay at 6:30 am because his mom has to go to work. When he gets home at night, he is the only one there until eight pm. This kid is in 4th grade. As far as I am concerned, this is pretty smart fo the school district and the city to marry a plan together, then maybe that way, these kids will be able to spend time with adult-like people after school instead of shivering alone in their own house. Be a good christian and support your fellow in need.
Frank, You raise an interesting point. Tim mentioned that BSU has a higher percentage of non-traditonal students and implied that it is a negative. The fact is that in an econmoy that is in the midst of enormous structural changes, BSU has decided that it must change as well. In the meantime, UI is stuck in a 1950's model that is obselete. A ranking in the Top Ten institutions that studying is not required (or whatever that goofy designation was) certainly does not assist UI in projecting a positive image. If UI (and Moscow) do not grow and reflect the changes that are occuring nationwide, they will be marginalized. Economics really does not consider your intention but rewards and punishes on actions. Moscow & the University are in an inaction phase and that is almost always punished. Tim's point that BSU was forced to grow into a more credible University is interesting. How long until they grow into the premeir University in Idaho?
The solution is straightforward. None of this should be a mystery to anyone. But many people don't want the truth -- they want anything but the truth. And as long as that is the case, it will be hard to turn around this sinking ship called public education and get it back into report for the necessary repairs. A smart rat knows when it is time to jump ship.
Merry Christmas!
There is a gun in Centennial High School's logo. What happened to zero tolerance?
This observation is not made to fan any flames, but I work at the U of I library, and it seems there are many NSA students who are dual-enrolled at both institutions. I actually think it's a good thing to see cooperation between the two. Synergy and stuff....like that....
This city is pro-education, but it is more anti-NSA/CC/Atlas/Wilson than pro-education. When Golda Mier was asked when peace would ever come to their region, she answered, "We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us." I believe we have a similiar situation here in Moscow. The wars started by the Intolerati will cease when whey love children and education more than they hate NSA/CC/Atlas/Wilson.
Dale, Thank you so very much for putting things like this up on the web. As a busy young man, this site has been a blessing to keep me up to date on Moscow issues. Thanks again. God Bless, Sam Creason
Sam, You're welcome. That's the goal. Since I do this for myself anyway, it's not much effort to put it up here. best, Dale
Carl, You have a good point about the dual-enrollment. But you have to understand what forced that in the past: UI wouldn't accept credits from NSA (even though other much more prestigious institutions -- such as George Mason University -- will accept 100% of the transfer credits). Now that NSA is fully accredited and UI has no option but to accept the transfer credits, you are going to see more students taking 2 years from NSA and transferring into UI to finish up the last 2 years of a technical training degree. best, Dale
It always cracks me up when the Leftists use "too little parking" as an argument against something they dislike, much as opponents of the Pullman Foursquare Church did here. But mark my words, these same people will be positively apoplectic about the "huge parking lot" at the upcoming public hearings on a Moscow Supercenter, just as PARD has been carrying on about the proposed Wal-Mart here in Pullman. There's just no pleasing those Socialists, short of eradicating the internal combustion engine altogether.
Please remind me again where all the Verizon employees parked when they worked that building. I wasn't there but I would bet a cup of coffee and a danish that those employees parked in the same lots used by students at NSA. Additionally: What proposed uses for such a significant bit of office space do not involve a number of employees+customers greater than the current student+staff at NSA?
They may have parked in the lot behind main street but at the same time, how much has Moscow grown in that time? Has Moscow growth outpaced the number of employees that drove to work at Verizon? I would assume that Moscow has grown a bit in the last 20 years or even the last 10 years. UI has grown signifigantly in that time so as UI has grown I would assume Moscow has grown as well. The correlation could be there but no one would know except for Verizon people and maybe Carl. Tim
2004 Census listed Latah County at 35,169 est. 2000 Census listed Latah County at 34,935 1990 Cencus listed Latah County at 30,617 1980 Cencus listed Latah County at 28,749 2000 Census listed Moscow at 24,955 1990 Census listed Moscow at 18,915 1980 Census listed Moscow at 16,513 http://www.ci.moscow.id.us/CommDev/CompPlan/Section7.pdf http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFFacts?_event=&geo_id=86000US83843&_geoContext=01000US%7C86000US83843&_street=&_county=&_cityTown=&_state=&_zip=83843&_lang=en&_sse=on&ActiveGeoDiv=&_useEV=&pctxt=fph&pgsl=860 I would suspect then that Moscow grew at a faster rate than the number of employees that drove to Verizon during the same time period. And even if Moscow did not grow at a faster rate, Latah County probably contributed a little to the parking issue downtown. Tim
At this rate, why have a tree or anything at all?
The Chronicle of Higher Education has an article out where it addresses the topic of "Classroom Paddling"....
Well what do you know. No wonder Pres White at the U of I only wants evolution taught in science classrooms... their not getting it in High School. I have some good news and some bad news.... The Bad... Students are flunking out of science.. The Good... We don't have to worry about teaching evolution in the public school... Suppose they gave a science class and nobody learned evolution....
A Emergency Responder cannot assume that there is a DNR, they must know for fact that a DNR is present. If an official DNR is present at the time CPR is needed, then the Emergency Responder must stop whatever it is that they are doing. A DNR must be official and having DNR tatooed on ones chest does not qualify. All MSD is doing is covering their rear if this situation were to arise.
Virginia Henderson, writing the "Our View" column for the editors of the Moscow-Pullman Daily News,...
The Daily News reported (Moscow Tackles Details Of Facilities Options) that Moscow School District...
That didn't take long for Keely's comments to come back to haunt her. Last time it was over a year..... I think MSD should look into the Tidyman's building for the other cramping that the overcrowding of students has brought to the district. I think its more a matter of “teacher overcrowding” than student overcrowding...!
Three Republicans on the WSU campus? We're seeing some progress towards diversity. Great, keep it up.
Ah Doug and Dale, It seems as though this reccomendation has come from the facilities planning committee and not from Mrs. Emerine Mix. With that in mind, your quotation has nothing to do with the current position that MSD has taken. Even if this possibility goes before the trustees, it is not Keely who proposed it but I can bet that it will be Keely who opposes the plan. Maybe you should post a retraction since Keely's quote is unrelated to the article in question. Not holding my breath.
Tim, Want to make a bet that keely opposes the plan? As far as I know, keely hasn't opposed anything that the school board has proposed that has to do with spending money. Recall: she was the champion spokesperson for the largest of the bond options in the failed levy. Secondly, I know of nothing that has changed to the 1912 building or to MSD to make Mix's statements different today than on 26 April. Best, Dale
Tim thinks that Keely will oppose the MSD proposal for using the 1912 building. That is a laugh. Keely will spend your money faster than you can. It doesn't matter where the money goes -- its for the children.
"Still, the Supreme Court only ruled that there was a problem, and left the method of fixing it in the hands of the Legislature." That's not their job. I think that one of the biggest problems with the court system is the American culture. We cry to have the courts fix something, but when they do we cry because they are overstepping their authority. They don't make law, they interpret it. -Sam
"To those who value the right of individuals to a conscience—that is, to judge right and wrong for themselves—this is welcome news." and "The right to judge for yourself what is true and false, what is right and wrong is a prerequisite for both freedom of speech and freedom of religion. The right of conscience is the bottom line of personal liberty itself. And it is being reasserted." Everyone already judges for themselves what is right and wrong.
These are Americans that their local schools failed to teach. One of the businessmen that I used to work with in Denver came from the Northeast. He said several times that he was a poor reader. If he could have he would have sued his former teachers and school districts for teaching him a look see type of reading rather than phonics.
A college student is supposed to pay $21,000 to study THAT? If I was a college-age kid, I could go to San Francisco's Castro district and get paid to study that stuff up close and personal.
I'm "College, less than Bach." (In fact, I'm even less than Vivaldi.) But I'm way up there in the earnings on account of my near-native proficiency in Japanese, which puts me in great demand, and also perhaps on account of my liberal arts background. (Despite my lack of a degree, I have enough liberal arts and humanities schooling for two degrees -- if I hadn't kept hopping from one school to another in three different countries.) So if the English major's career is in the field of burger flipping, does that mean you discount the value of a liberal arts/humanities degree? Just curious.
Unfortunatly, Idahoans can no more think like this than they can suspend the law of gravity.
While I agree that standardized testing has its shortcomings, basic facts and figures are necessary for higher-level learning. At least in the sciences, that sort of learning comes in an independent laboratory research environment. The problem isn't the tenure system. The problem is with raises, promotion and tenure based on student evaluations of teaching (SET). Valen Johnson, Professor of Biostatistics outlines the link between grade inflation, relative ease of the class, and SET's. A review of that book from UCLA: http://www.uclafaculty.org/Newsletters/grinfl.htm To draw an analogy, what would boot camp resemble if the drill instructors were rated by their soldiers, just after completion of the course? It wouldn't be long before the army of such policy would become ever more ineffective with time.
The focus should be on the drugs that boys are given in school. The legal drugs prefered by the government school teachers and administrators are keeping boys from moving up. Our schools are not drug free regardless of what the signs say.
Seems like I remember that some years ago Logos accepted a boy who was so handicapped he couldn't speak at all.
Kate, That was well before my time, so I cannot speak first-hand about that. But I *can* speak first hand (not hear-say) about the ones that I do know about. Best, Dale
In spite of you giving her the benefit of the doubt, Rose is still arguing that Logos screens for academic potential by not enrolling disabled students. (http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-January/023609.html) She doesn't try to point to anything else to support her argument (academic testing, etc). It really does appear that she is equating disability with low academic potential.
No schools screen more assiduously than do the government schools. One benefit for them is the increased money from the feds for every child identified as "special". But that aside, government schools have HUGE special ed departments; and the kids have been examined and prodded and poked and tested and IPed 'til the last possible statistic is brought forth. Now here is the truth that no one has yet picked up on and that seems to be missing in the diatribe of the husky rose: Performance reports (test results) coming from the government schools ALWAYS exclude students that have been identified for special ed. When a district reports its scores on a standardized test, they have already been sanitized by omitting the special ed scores. Special ed kids DO take the tests; but they are administered separately under completely different rules and they are not reported with the general student body. It is either ignorant or specious (or both!) to point a finger at private schools for screening for ANYTHING. Academic progress reports for the government schools are so carefully manipulated and completely doctored that they cannot be trusted for comparison purposes. I know. I gave the government school system a goodly portion of my life. Out of complete frustration with a failed system, citizens demand testing in the schools in a vain attempt to hold the system accountable. It is a cruel joke. The chicanery and duplicity involved with the testing and reporting process is only ONE reason to flee the monopolistic government schools.
Keely can't bow down far enough to the small god of diversity can she? Sorry she can't see past her prejudice, Dale.
I believe Ms. Huskey mounted her defense of teacher certification immediately after lamenting the failure of standardized testing on student as a way to measure performance or predict success. I smiled at the juxtaposition.
Jeffco is the wealthiest county in Colorado, or at least it was 10 years ago when I lived in Colorado. I'm sure they get these good results because they screen for academic potential. Whoever doesn't pass must be forced into Commerce City. Its perfectly obvious.
There is a legend in our family about my Father's refusal to consider selling 80 acres to a neighbor: The story illustrates human behavior in some of its more interesting manifestations: Neighbor Stan came over to our place to press his need to buy 80 acres that adjoined him and were rather isolated from our home place. This was the annual ritual: Stan would offer to buy the property and Dad would demure. Then Stan would list all the reasons why it would be "such a deal" for my Dad. But every year, Dad put him off. On this occasion, Dad replied to the offer to buy that land with "I can't. The King of Norway died" (both Dad and Stan were Norweigan". Rather befuddled, Stan asked "what does the government of Norway have to do with our land deal"? Dad said "not a thing. But when my mind is made up, any reason is good enough". Stan never renewed his offer to buy the parcel; and it remains in the family estate to this day. When "the centrist" city council members want to kick NSA out of Moscow, any reason is good enough. Anyone with a lick of sense knows their real motivation. A dedicated wife-beater doesn't need a special tool to wreak havoc on his home. Any stick will do.
These people are laughing stocks. I'll have to start attending city council meetings to gather material for a novel, the great American novel. Wouldn't Mark Twain have had a heyday with this? Or Solzhenitsyn, I can't decide which.
One of the many attempted justifications that Citizen Ament offered, which city staff did not support but which Scott Bauer is now trying to sell, was that there was a substantive change to the ordinance along the way which required further hearings, but that further hearings were not held. Thus, the ordinance (in the Ament/Bauer analysis) is fatally flawed and cannot stand up to a procedural challenge. Now, if this were really the case, wouldn't city staff (composed of two experienced municipal lawyers and some very experienced and knowledgeable zoning guys) have caught it? If that were really true, it would have been a simple matter to justify the moratorium by saying, "there is a fatal procedural flaw. See this language here? It is a substantive change, and it required further hearings. Those were not held, so we need to have another hearing on this particular language." But instead, we got a lot of yada yada from coucil members and a post-hearing sales pitch by a resident of Bellingham. Sheesh.
How could government run two-year colleges be the answer to government run K - 12? This is a bit off topic, but why do the masses not bat an eye when the government schools graduate millions of illiterates, but think that the government should regulate all private schools, which includes home schools, just because a few of those children don't get taught well. The government's response to a poorly taught home schooler would be to force him into a government school where he will also not be taught to read or memorize the multiplication tables.
"(41%) of Idaho students entering college must take non-credit remedial courses before taking equivalent college level courses, particularly in the areas of math and science." Many states are upset at the prospect of having to pay twice for H.S. education, i.e. the remedial courses beyond H.S. Our state legislators seem all to eager to shell out for a new community college in Boise, yet are strangely silent about apparent lack of accountability of the our state-run H.S's
When will the audio of the hearings be available, and will that be online? I felt the Logos hearing and CCM hearing went quite well!
"Books on wine and food don't have anything to do with religion." That is the gnostic heresy at work.
So, what else is new--a new semester and more money is 'needed'. Tuition goes up how much faster than inflation? It seems the rich get richer and the students (or their parents) get poorer. Maybe Walmart should manage the universities.
Re-poll again in a month. The public will have forgotten about about the 20/20 report.
Doncha think?
I could have sworn I've seen this here before.
Porn is a plague on America. It has more negative consequences than most people think. Of course, we all have to be broad-minded about this subject. We cannot just condemn it because it tears up families, destroys relationships and objectifies women and men. I am always amazed that the amazon women’s groups don’t stand up to porn. Apparently the money involved is more important than the ethics and social relationships. The teacher asked for papers on the negative aspects of porn. That was a good idea. His implementation was flawed though.
Would a teacher require students to take a dose of cocaine and then write eight facts about it?
Christopher, You have seen it here before (actually, over at the old MoscowEducation.org site). But it was cited in the ABC 20/20 show on Friday, so I thought it worth reposting. Best, Dale
I'm really glad I could see that. Nothing I didn't already know, but it is good to see that at least somebody in the MSM is paying attention.
Thanks for posting this. Since we don't do TV at our house I thought wouldn't get to see it.
http://www.heritage.org/research/education/schoolchoice/Idaho.cfm Summary of Idaho Schools Students may attend any participating public school within or outside the district, provided certain conditions are met. The state has a weak charter school law. Junior and senior high school students may take college courses for high school and postsecondary credit.
"The percentage of students who are proficient in math peaks in fourth grade at about 90 percent, based on statewide test scores. That number drops to about 70 percent by the time they leave high school and head to college." How do they define proficient? My guess is that less than 50% of the Idaho HS grads entering UI are proficient enough to begin their freshman year without remedial courses in math.
Congratulations for your outstanding efforts.
Our society is frantically pushing every button except the ancient one--the only approach our ancestors considered reasonable. Our culture refuses to even consider gender-specific education. Previous generations better understood reality; and they never seriously considered coed education.
Given this continued course, it won't be long before higher ed quality drops as low as K-12. There's no documentation as to how well UI, ISU, or BSU students do post-graduation. A number of benchmarks can be applied, GRE's, MCAT's, LSAT's, income of alum, 5, and 10 years beyond graduation, Success in grad and professional schools, comments and ratings from employers. With funding based solely on a head count the impetus is to round'em up and get'em in the university. Hence lavish rec facilities, even when instructional budgets are going down. Most states have a tier system of state universities, e.g. California, Washington, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. The flagship campuses there produce grads whose quality can compete with the best private universities. Idaho being a low population state is bit of quandry here, but this is something to think about as the population increases.
Another example of leftist propaganda getting to our children in a public facility. I guess it's alright to push the sexual teachings of their god.
I know of older returning students that must commute 1.5 hours each way to get to CC in Oregon down in the Boise area. There is a need for a Boise area CC. However, how many students are in the 18-22 age group and must attend CC because of a deficient HS education? How much of the proposed CC budget should out the public k-12 system for simply being negligent? Why should the Idaho taxpayer pay twice for education, e.g. algebra in HS then in CC?
What fun photos! I wish I could have been there for the celebration but I had a prior committment to the Friends of the Library over in Tri-Cities (working the annual book sale). It is so much fun to set up tables covered with thousands of books to sell to swarms of people who are thrilled with their bargains, and to swap book hunting stories with fellow book hunters for several days. This post reminds me of one of the "You know a home schooler" jokes, "You know someone is a home schooler when the stack of books he checks out from the library is taller than the librarian."
These politicians ought to mind their own schools before they mind private schools. How many millions of government school graduates can't read well enough to fill out a job application?
Hopefully teachers unions won't pressure legislators to change laws that would make home schooling illegal. What are the chances of that happening? It's more likely to happen since funding is tied to attendance.
Varnel, See "Gary Schroeder's War on Homeschoolers" http://right-mind.us/blogs/moscoweducation/archive/2006/01/28/40903.aspx best, Dale
Achoo! The hell with the children. Achoo! The hell with the parents. Achoo! Where's my money and sick leave.
That is typical union boss behavior.
Kate, How can you classify this behavior as typical union boss behavior? I happen to know 4or 5 current union bosses who do not act like this when dealing with a situation such as this. We could replace the union boss' name with Doug Wilson and the words union boss in your sentence with the words religious leader. Would you still support your statement that "This is typical union boss behavior"? Just curious.
Tim, I only have experience with one union boss, and believe me, I would have LOVED to have my union boss treat me the way Thompson was treated. Because I was treated far worse. In my case, the mortal sin was clocking out one minute late. I was threatened with physical violence to my person AND my tires were slashed. For clocking out one minute late. Oh, and Tim, I don't doubt that someday you could make an exemplary union boss yourself -- you clearly have what it takes to be one of the great ones.
Yup, that's my kind of adjustment.
I notice lots of differences. Moscow Charter has one building, equipment for a few students, and a smaller staff suited for smaller populations. Moscow School District has many schools, lots of equipment needs, and a larger staff based on a larger student population. MSD also has some of the oldest buildings in the city whereas MCS has a fairly new building. The cost to heat, maintain, and upgrade an old building is higher than the cost to heat, maintain, or upgrade a newer facility. Yes, there are other places within MSD that could probably be cut, there is money to save. Overall though, MSD is very efficient given the circumstances for which it operates. Meridian is high on the list for many reasons. Most of the schools in Meridian have been built within the last 10 years. Most of the staff at Meridian have been hired within the last five years thus keeping salary low. Meridian also does not have the socially-economic problems that many other school districts have to deal with. Most of the students who attend schools in Meridian have come from California and live in $500,000 homes. Many students who live in Boise are from Boise and live in $150000 homes in low income areas. More money is spent on clothes, food, and other social service programs in Boise than in Meridian. You cannot put all the school districts on the same plane and compare across the board. This is like comparing apples to oranges and it does not make sense.
ROFL! Hey Tim, future union boss par excellence, are you going to hand out first place ribbons to every school in the state? After all, each school is unique and they cannot be meaningfully compared. They are all, in their unique ways, ranked 1st in the state . . . No matter what sort of spin Tim might try to put on it, the evidence is truly non-spinnable. Even if everything he says is true (and its not, but anyway for the sake of argument) the evidence still suggests that charter schools are to be preferred to school districts like MSD. Incredible!
The funny part is that cdwitmer does not even live in Idaho let alone pay taxes here so really his perspective is meaningless.
Ah but the same can be said about the hypocrisy of Jack Wenders. It seems as though Jack trashes government schools even though he is a retired faculty from the University of Idaho, a government school. Weird
Don’t anyone hold their breath expecting a quick answer to this pointed dollar costing of our schools. There is bloat not only in MSD schools but also in schools around the country. If there weren’t a school budget problem, Seattle schools wouldn’t be facing closures. Not enough money isn’t our problem; it is how the existing funds are spent. We are overrun by MSD’s emotional pleas for more money. For example: look at the logic in this post about MSD fiscal efficiency. “The funny part is that cdwitmer does not even live in Idaho let alone pay taxes here so really his perspective is meaningless.” Tim Rigsby February 5th, 2006 With mathematics if you can add, subtract and divide, you don’t even have to speak English to arrive at the same conclusion. Tim’s meaningless outburst is ineffective in pulling a person’s attention away from the student cost argument. We need to revamp our MSD budget rather than pour more money into facilities and personnel.
Pickaprof does not work well for every class at UI or even WSU. UI offers a number of classes that are taught by one person and only offer one or two sections. If this is the case, the evaluations are meaningless. Look at a number of Education classes. Most of the ED classes are taught by one person or only offer one section per semester. The selection does not favor the students choice at all. Pickaprof may be beneficial for students enrolled in entry or freshman level courses where there are nearly 60-100 sections offered, for example English 101.
With administrators using just one number, student evaluations to judge teaching expect the dumbing down of higher ed that will rival the downfall of public k-12. Instead of taking 30 years, expect higher ed to fall in 10.
Doug Wilson made a similar comment a while back on his blog concerning Physical Education. I didn't see anyone from the right side of things diving in and taking a stance against that comment. Why now, because the comment was made from the IEA pulpit and not the CC pulpit?
What is wrong with having classes in HPERD? Have you not seen what the obesity problem looks like in our school children? Having an educated child is a wonderful thing. Having high test scores for the youth of Idaho is great. At the same time though, students who are scoring well, and doing well in class, eventually will need information that they learned in Health, PE, Dance, or other classes within HPERD to help them prevent CVD, High Blood Pressure, Diabetes, and other chronic preventable diseases. A student can have an IQ of a million and not know the first thing about lifetime sports and being physically active and the benefits associated with daily physical activity. Home school students, charter students, and parochial students may be intelligent, but are they in shape and do they get the NASPE reccomended 150 minutes of vigorous physical activity per week? Tim P.S. Educational consultants are idiots 9 times out of 10. P.P.S. 47% of all statistics are made up.
There is a difference in education and schooling. Fluff courses are not education. If Mr Rigsby wants his child to have fluff courses then he should find a private school that majors in fluff. The rest of us should not have to pay millions of dollars to the state so that it can chase illiterate kids around a track somewhere. The purpose of education is to teach people how to think, and how to learn so that they can, on their own nickel and time, research, and make sense out of what they research, whatever they need to know about what ever concerns them, like preventing high blood pressure, or how many weekly minutes of exercise the latest guru says they should have. Home educated children have a much higher percentage of college educated parents than public schooled kids. These parents care about their kids, and can read and decide for themselves what exercise program is best for their kids. It is not the state's job to monitor how many minutes per week of exercise every kid gets, in the expensive name of state schooling and the teacher's union. It would be mere hypocrisy for politicians to be oh, so concerned about the privately educated kids when their own state schools are cranking out dodos by the millions, but it goes beyond that. It is really about money, not about kids.
“The stability of republican form of government depending mainly upon the intelligence of the people, it shall be the duty of the legislature of Idaho, to establish and maintain a general, uniform and thorough system of public, free common schools.” Idaho Constitution This requires classes on reading, writing, arithmetic, history, science and government. It does not call for classes on learning to fly fish. It does not call for health classes or for costly team sports maintained at taxpayer expense. The constitution is the problem with the fluff classes that are being taught at our state schools. Homeschoolers do not suffer from the multiculturalism and fluff taught in the government schools. Homeschoolers in general score better on national standardized tests than do government school students. Homeschoolers have not demonstrated a need for the Idaho government to check up on them. This is another grab for more money and more intrusion where it is not called for. It is especially onerous when we look at the years of dropouts and less than qualified graduates from our Idaho schools. Our legislators need to look harder at the tax funded students before they consider any requirements for homeschoolers.
John Goedde's bill to pay math/science teachers more moves forward. Although modest, this bill goes...
Holy cow Batman. It's worse than I thought. It seems unless you're connected to education in Moscow, good luck paying your property taxes on a fixed income. Time to move to the county.
What is wonderful about our society is that people like Dale feel as though teachers are overpaid yet when it comes to other parts of government, nothing is heard from the right-minded morons. How come Dale and the other right-minded morons never comment on the bloated pay of the Idaho National Guard? I know someone who got paid to attend a Christmas party sponsored and hosted by the Idaho National Guard. This same person just finished a weekend of drill where all he did was smooze his boss and fill out cross word puzzles. Seems as though the $750 that was spent this weekend on this one individual was wasted to me.
If the poor health of our children is costing the state too much money, than maybe we should get the state of socialized health care. How much more of this nanny-state mentality can we afford? Maybe Idaho should adopt the motto, "Don't Tread On Me".
Yes, I did notice that! If the MSD was as efficient as Pullman they would be able to squirrel away millions of dollars at interest, and in a few years would be able to buy all those things that they want us to finance at interest, cash on the barrelhead.
People, people, people! You are missing the point of the MSD figures. This situation is very simple and obvious to the casual observer. MSD uses new math. MSD feels that 2+2 equals $14 million. Your money is their money. Nothing to see here folks– just move along and put your calculators away.
Before you read the article below, ask yourself the two questions: Question of the Day #1 and ...
More collateral damage from Moscow's Intoleristas: Paradise Creek Regional High School (PCRHS). Review...
When I first visited this morning there was a "how many times viewed" on each post. I thought that was a cool feature. Did you remove it?
"a girl who claims a 3.6 grade point average says she's failed the math exam five times" This is not an unusual experience in higher ed now.
From that article: "What we oppose is a single, national, high-stakes, one-size-fits-all, uber-outcome exam," Warren said. "The notion of a single exam implies there are national standards, and that implies a national curriculum. Then we are on the way to a centralized Prussian education system." I think that this raises a good point. However remember how dominant the Prussians were in the sciences, and engineering during their heyday (1850-1940)?
I thought for sure, the answer would be to pay the teachers more.
I posted previously Walter E. Williams' article Postponing Reality. Singlemind picks up on that...
Maybe this will finally pull the plug on public schooling as we have come to know and hate it. Enough money could be saved by going over to better cost vs. performance ratio home schooling and private schooling solutions to keep the promises that we made to all these teachers without blowing the roof off school costs and resulting taxes. However, it will likely be impossible if the status quo is to be maintained. Personally, I think that if we can shut down the brain-dead, soul-dead education establishment and get back to real education for our children, just about any price would be a bargain. BTW, you had a story here that discussed private schools with tuitions in the neighborhood of $25,000 per annum. I suppose there are numerous reasons for such high tuitions, but perhaps one of them is the artificially high cost of public schooling causing the cost of private school to go up too. (Even so I wonder how such a high tuition can be justified at any school, but whatever. If it is a free market parents can spend their money however they like.)
The writer is obviously a socialist who believes all money and assets belong to the state and what we keep is government welfare. Fortunately, I can afford to pay taxes for public schools AND pay for private tuition for my grandson. Not everyone has the choice of how to spend their education money.
I don't sense much love and affection from this writer. Where's the compassion for the hard working, over taxed citizen just trying to get a decent education for their child?
I love how broad the information on this site is. Thanks for the post Dale!
Doesn't he have anything else in his repertoire? I should think that even his few supporters would get tired of hearing him sing "Sing, Little Birdy" for the 10,000th time.
Nice job, Dale. Just a clarification to head off some of the grammatical parsing that will come from your statement that I "corrected the error in writing immediately when it was pointed out." I corrected the error on the record when it was asserted on the record that I had been dishonest. That all happened at the recent BOTA hearing on NSA's property tax exemption. I've known for some time that certain folks have been talking about my earlier error. But none of them bothered to ask me about it, and I have better things to do than respond to every stupid comment or accusation that comes from that crowd. When it was brought up in a forum where correcting the record mattered, I corrected the record. By the way - as I recall, Tom Garfield said that Logos did not own a portrait of Robert E. Lee, but would like to (the one Gier has a photo of was on loan). Perhaps Gier can take up a collection to buy one for Logos. Then at least his charge will be true. Gregory C. Dickison
"I want to be clear: it is well known that student evaluations do not objectively evaluate a teacher." This not the view of modern higher ed in America. At most universities it is the sole indicator of "teaching effectiveness." It's no wonder that many outside of higher ed are starting to question the knowledge and thinking skills of recent grads.
Go Logos! Congrautlations on winning the regional title.
I'm not sure that most of us are that aware of a given populations' racial mix. Leave it the diversity police to keep an eye on things that they think are earth-shattering important. No doubt that this is just the beginning of required classes that will guarantee that a student will be at the university for another year. When will the diversity police demand equal representation of political thought?
This is just one more anecdote, and I know it is hard to draw any conclusions from it, but not only are our kids homeschooled, they all have gotten off to late/slow starts in their homeschooling. And our homeschooling is hardly a model of efficiency -- just the opposite. And yet, our oldest daugher, who is now finishing her first year in the university, was not only the youngest student ever to matriculate there, she is also doing so well that she is near the top (if not the very top) of her class. And this is in Japan, even though both parents are non-Japanese. Like I said, it is hard to generalize based on one person's experience, but I can't help wondering if maybe taking things slower is better for kids than rushing kids into full-time separation from their mother (because that is what full-day K amounts to) at an early age . . . .
Who really cares about what the aquarium MEANS? What did it take to get it to the right balance? Don't ask, don't tell. As long as it LOOKS appropriate, it will be taken as a sign of fidelity to the reigning deity.
If this weren't so sad it would be funny. I work with guys who can't read. What is really sad is that those who love the government schools can't see the failures in that system. If they were serious about teaching they wouldn't care who highlighted the problem, they would be interested in fixing the problem and producing young men and women -- just like the state constitution requires. Instead they just want more money. Sad, sad, sad.
Call them what one may, the AMA, ABA and ADA are most definitely labor unions . . .
It's obvious that were just not spending enough money. Not! I wonder if all of the treasuries of each state were emptied into reading programs would students read any better. Do you suppose our educrats have figured that out yet?
I guess that means I got me a trophy wife . . . I'd better go have her give me a congratulatory kiss.
I wonder if he ever got around to teaching geography. If this is an example of one of our best and brightest teachers, it's no wonder our students are doing poorly. Propagandists have no place in our school system.
Unfortunately we do not want to actually cost out the actual value of bio-fuels. Bio-fuel sounds good, but this is really a farm subsidy. When the cost of planting, nurturing, fertilizing, harvesting, transporting and refining the grain to a usable fuel is actually calculated, bio-fuels are so expensive that regular gas needs to hit $6-12 a gallon before bio-fuel is an option. Biodiesel sounds good, but it is also expensive. In addition to energy industry magazines, Home Power and other green energy magazines have run many articles on the true cost of bio-fuels. It is an expensive proposition right now. Politicians don’t want to expose the real cost because then other avenues of fuel energy make more sense. For example natural gas is less expensive and is already available at a much lower cost than any bio-fuel can be manufactured. Another bad idea backed by faulty science and crooked politicians will be crammed down our throats.
The higher rate CAN be justified based on graduation rates. BSU and ISU rates are in the mid-20%, whereas UI is about 50%. The costs of running upper-division classes is much higher as the student:professor ratios in these classes are typically 10:1 rather than the 100:1 for freshman sections. See the graduation data at: http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/2004/d1/ While UI's graduation rate is not good it is typical of a state land grant university. ISU and BSU rates are downright abysmal. All state universities suffer from the "round'em up and get a head count" mentality for funding and it is reflected in the graduation rates. State legislators everywhere need to wise up to this and have a close look at graduation rates and HS standards.
Without notice, until he attempted to move. even if you took the shotgun out of his pants there is no way he could walk nomally. Too much bulk and weight and things clanking about. Not to mention his pants falling down. On the other hand we should all be thankful that since carrying guns in such a manner is illegal in many places that a blessed few need not live in fear of concealed weapons.
I wonder if the threat against this guy has anything to do with the threats the college republicans wrote all over the BSU campus against homosexuals and the Vagina Monolouges.
Tim, what is your evidence that it was college Republicans at BSU who wrote anything against homosexuals and lesbians?
An interesting choice of words: "bill his family for the bullet!!". Coincidental? It is the SOP for executions conducted by communist regimes e.g Red China. Socialists, leftists, communists, statists. Different without much distinction.
The "P" in PTA has always stood for Patsy. Either that or Professional, as in "We're the Professional Teachers. We are the Experts. Parents butt out and leave the teaching to us. You stick to what you're good at, which is making babies, packing bag lunches and earning money to pay taxes that pay our salaries. We will do what we're good at, which is educating America's future as only government-licensed Experts can." It has been that way for at least as long as I've been alive.
Is the common thread in this lesson, geography or anti-Bush, anti-America propaganda? I wonder how many hard working, tax paying Americans appreciate this message given to their children.
Varnel, I think the naïveté of the American parent is wearing off quickly. Parents *do* know what's going on in the government schools -- it was already well underway when they were in school. I have a niece and nephew 10 and 17 years (respectively) younger than I am. They both attended government school -- a very *fine*, expensive, best-money-could-buy government school. They both vowed that they would never send their kids into that environment. And they are not evangelical/fundamentalist Christians -- just parents concerned for the education of their children. And if the best-money-could-buy school causes this kind of sentiment, imagine the other end of the spectrum (e.g., inner-city parents who want their kids just to learn to read). No, we're rapidly approaching a crisis of faith in the government education system of America. And people with means (and many of those without the means) are voting with their dollars and going elsewhere: charters, homeschool, private schools, virtual academies, etc. Best, Dale
Stossel hits the nail on the head. The unions also say "education of the children is too important to be left to 'amateurs' like parents." For the unions, education is a means to an end: more money and power for the unions.
Higher union wages; higher union dues; bigger, richer unions leads to greater political clout. Do campaign finance laws come into play here?
It really is a shame that the tax paying folks in Moscow can’t see the difference between education and government schools. The Intoleristas shout that there would be no public education if the government schools were gone or had to justify the money that they waste. Of course that is incorrect but reason and logic have no place in Moscow discussions. Remember the socialists tell us that MSD is an economic engine for Moscow. That’s an engine that is fed with our tax dollars and an engine that produces a poor product for the cost. It is past time to say no to more tax money going to the MSD.
Congratulations to both schools. And to think with all of this success, there are some in this community trying to dismantle New St. Andrews.
I hope someone taped it... the 700 club isn't on local TV here in France :)
When asked by students shooting a TV documentary "what is the Christian view on homosexuality?" a Miami...
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals' ruling in Fields v. Palmdale is clearly based on the assumption that individual people are government property. In other words, parents have no specific right to control their children's exposure to matters related to sex, or anything else for that matter, because the parents are acting IN LOCO PARENTIS for the true parent, which is the State. The State, as the true parent, DOES have a specific right to control their children's exposure to matters related to sex, etc. That is the logic behind the ruling, in a nutshell.
Good Luck Logos. I heare that this years Boise HS teams are rather tough. Go Big Red!
Let's put the "E" back in 'ducation, and in gaff'.
Doesn't "to compete in the world marketplace" imply training workers. Workers is a Marxist term; employees is a Capitalist view. What ever happened to the concept of educating our students rather than training them?
Varnel, You raise a great objection! Historically, there's been a strong distinction made between education (teaching people to think) and training (teaching how to *do*). That sometimes gets blurred (if I teach someone database theory; then I train them to implement the theory on an Oracle Server, is that education or training?), but it used to be in higher education that we'd call that application in the real world a "lab". The notion of education is all but lost in K-12. The teachers are there to teach kids how to *do*, not how to think and reason. And until we regain that lost vision of education, we will continue to turn out "workers" who are suitable for the state. best, Dale
I left NJ back in 1994. If would like to see a state run as if were a wholly owned subsidiary of the NEA just have a look at NJ. I was paying over $5000/year in property taxes on a house we sold for $138,000 at the time.
I thank my lucky stars everytime I read stories such as this that I received my high school education in the mid 60's. Then, teachers expected you to do the work or you failed. Teachers taught to the academic top of the class, thereby challenging everyone. There were rules about classroom behavior; if you broke them, you were sent out of class to stand in the hallway or you went to the principals office to be reprimanded. There weren't too many kids graduating with a 4.0 gpa. I could go on, but you get the picture.
Ahhhhh. To be young AND bright. Congrats to the Logos team. Yesterday I was worried about the future when I watched four young men with tattoos, piercings, heavy pants and very weird hair parade around town. I thought to myself, "These are our future leaders?" Your pictures have dispelled my gloom.
I think Rose Huskey would approve most of the female lawyers wearing the neckties and the butch haircuts. The rest are too feminine.
Go Logos!!
No mention of those who won't vote for ANY new taxes? Do you suppose those responses were just considered "incomplete" and are not tallied in the percentages? If I read the article right, there were 519 responses that were not tallied. Either they were not returned or were considered unreportable for SOME reason!?
Mr. Ed, I've got a data call in to MSD for the results and the comments. I'm going to go thru them just like I did last time. Then we'll hear the rest of the story :) Best, Dale
They are a little off base. What should be stressed is more business and accounting classes. Not everyone needs to go to college. Vocational schools may be more apropriate for some.
This is a hot-button issue for me. In other countries, the differentiate between education and VoTech training. For instance, in Germany you make a decision in 8th grade which way you are going to go -- to college or to the work force with training and skills. In the USA, we just send everyone thru the same VoTech training system; then we wonder why they are unequipped for college. But that's OK -- we take the first year of college and teach them everything that they should have learned in the previous 4 years of high school. Sigh... Dale
Even though the students aren't performing up to grade, I would guess that the adminstrators, teachers and staff are happy with the goldmine they found.
Maybe there's a demographic aspect as well. Washington D.C. has one of America's highest crime rates.
The last part of the HSLDA blurb said, "We told her that she had gone beyond her lawful authority...". Govt school bureaucrats think they are God and are constantly trying to force home schoolers to jump through whatever hoops they concoct, regardless of the law. HSLDA has been a Godsend. We were members until our youngest turned 16.
So the movie "Deliverance" is the result of homeschooling? The irony is, resembling some third world countries would be a STEP UP for American public education. I kid you not !
My fear would be that anything that a elementry school teacher thinks is not "nice" will end up being the standard by which all discourse must be measured. Everyone must run around cooing like Mr. Rogers or be judged a bully. Assertive personalities report to the principals office at once.
Thank you for the summary.
The owner of Basilio's might like to blame NSA for the demise of his establishment, but from what I started hearing several years ago from an employee there, I conclude that it was due to other factors. I was advised by this employee and other people who had partonized the restraurant not to eat there, and never did. It would seem that enough other people thought the same way.
I have asked a few people what they thought about Basilios. Some never knew it was there. (bad visibility, little, if any advertisement). Others knew of its existence but never dined there because they heard the food was bad. One person said she dined there six years ago when it opened, and never returned because of the bad food. There *are* other factors than parking. And even concerning parking, though the spots nearest Basilios are often taken, I have *always* been able to find a place in the Jackson parking lot (except for during Farmers Market). It seems to me that people going out to dinner are willing (or should be willing) to walk 100 feet to eat. If you go to a mall you easily walk that far if not further...
If what was pointed out about NSA students not even being around for the most part during the evening is true, then it sure seems like the owner of Basilios is just using NSA as a convenient scapegoat for his own mistakes. 9 out of 10 businesses fail.
Joan speaks against the Moscow Board of Adjustment’s granting NSA a CUP. She is biased in her reporting and missed a few of the pertinent facts that occurred at the hearing. The Board of Adjustment worked carefully and in broad daylight to come to a decision granting the CUP. The entire process was transparent but rather lengthy. ljgcats comment that citizens should question what is going on behind the scenes is absurd and insulting to the members of the Board of Adjustment and the Moscow City staff. Parking was discussed for over two hours. Board members repeatedly pointed out that NSA is not the reason for the parking problem in downtown Moscow. In fact the Board produced photos of the Jackson Street parking lot showing that the southwest corner was empty almost all the time. Also Board members pointed out that local business do not have sufficient parking for their employees who regularly run outside to move their cars from one spot to another to avoid getting a ticket. They agreed that there is no reason to penalize NSA without penalizing the other existing business also. Two Moscow City Planners, the Moscow City Attorney and the Board of Adjustment agreed that there is no zoning violation and that granting this CUP is the best fit for Moscow in accordance with our Comprehensive Plan. While some disagree, the fit is the best for the entire City of Moscow. Bob Green didn’t so much speak out against the CUP as he did rant against the Board of Adjustment members and their process. He was extremely rude and did not make any points. He just ranted. Most restaurants fail in the first few years. Basilio’s is not failing because of parking. The restaurant was dirty and stank of stale garbage rather than smelling yummy like an Italian Restaurant should. Louis said that he couldn’t offer lunch catering to downtown business because of a lack of parking spots. Yet catering and parking don’t necessarily have a cause and effect relationship. Joan also ignored the positive comments from individuals with no affiliation to NSA or Christ Church but who own downtown businesses made about NSA. They all commented how vibrant the downtown area has become since NSA moved there. Our system is still intact. Joan is displeased with the results. NSA should exist by right rather than by CUP. If we want to heal our community, we need to let NSA remain where it is and move forward. The complaints are from a small, disgruntled group of individuals who want what they want not what is best for Moscow.
About 12 years ago, a Denver lawyer bought a house near Cherry Creek Reservoir. The property was inexpensive because it was immediately adjacent to the main approaches to the Denver Centennial Airport. Centennial at the time was the Number 2 busiest general aviation airport in the USofA. There were multitudes more takeoffs and landings at Centennial than either old Denver Stapleton Airport or the new DIA. This lawyer formed neighborhood groups to shut down Centennial Airport. The fact that the airport was founded decades before her house was built had no bearing in her thinking. She wanted to improve her property value and not be bothered by planes on landing approach. At first she went with noise complaints. That caused changes in the approaches to Centennial. One night she complained that a night landing disturbed her. The radar track showed that the pilot flew exactly on the noise abatement profile to land at Centennial. That stopped some of the complaints. Then she started saying that Centennial didn’t have any community value. A study directed by the Centennial Airport Commissioners showed not a few million dollars put into the local economy, but millions upon millions upon millions of dollars put into the local economy. My point is that $2 million input into Moscow’s economy is not that difficult to achieve. If fact, if Joan wanted to fund a study, the results would be well over what any of us think is put into our economy. Of course, that study would have to be by a non-partisan, non-biased, regionally recognized group. Joan, if you are so concerned, why don’t you buy a study. After all you say that you are gainfully employed.
Blaming lack of parking spaces for Basilio's failure is absurd. I never had difficulty finding parking to eat at Basilios, because I never had any desire to eat at Basilios.
Good point, Austin! One very important reason that businesses fail is that the owners refuse to undertake any SELF ASSESSMENT, and reject well-intentioned assessment that his usually only hinted at by others.
That's good stuff, but I want to hear from Bob Greene and the owner of Basilio's. =)
Austin, The owners of Basillo's is back in business! Best, Dale PS -- I'll have those out in the next few days. I've been busy going thru the CUP meeting chronologically.
Oh dear. Perhaps now Keely will have more time to post in the forum she's "been blessed to the point of tears by." I'm still not sure what to think about someone being blessed to tears by Vision2020. Strangest thing I've heard in awhile.
We talked previously about Stossel to Teach for a Week. I knew it couldn't last. The unions would never...
Ain’t that just the way it is. You pick up the gauntlet and the God hating guys run away. There is not a public funded school in the US that wants an outsider inside. The results would be disastrous to the administrators and the others that suck away our money and don't give a good return for it. Chicago public schools didn't need cops in them years ago. Now with multiculturalism at its zenith, the administrators are calling for more cops.
Our lawmakers see no need to consult founding documents when the physical benifits to young americans is so obvious. Next apply it to older citizens. Next apply it to social benifits. And lastly, apply it everywhere else. Like so many other bad outcomes, it starts from a good thought.
Go Logos! Hard work pays off.
I agree with Mr Kaag. The UI is a land Grant College that has a vast Extension Service and Experiment Stations to support, yet they were allocated less money than ever From the Board of Education, while other institutions received more. The UI should give up trying to be a powerhouse in sport. They should concentrate on Education and research.
Kaag is a great guy, I heard he is retiring from his teacher position at Moscow High School? Very good letter to the editor.
Who wrote the article?
Dale, Don, not only lives out of town but he and Rose live under the roof of their daughter and her live in lesbian friend. It's good to see that he has found his cajones and no longer takes directions from his lovely wife Rose. Now if he could just pay the rent!
Austin, Sorry about that. William Jackson of Troy. best, Dale
Someone not from Moscow is charging people who don't live in Moscow with breaking a Moscow law. Brilliant.
Nothing to see here folks. Just a bit more Intolerista action in Moscow. Why should any of us be surprised at the actions of these few individuals. NSA was originally approved by the city years ago. If parking and zoning were really the issue, why didn't the Intoleristas make complaints then? Because as we all know they are not the real reasons behind the complaints. Now that over a year of city turmoil and intensive public input was put to rest by the Board of Adjustment, the Intoleristas are not satisified and will force their way on the rest of Moscow no matter what. By the way, what reason does Dustin (Scott) Bauer to make a compaint in Moscow? He works for Walla Walla County and is a Washington resident near there. You'd think that there was enough work over there. Yep, folks it is the love of the zoning code that will cause all of us more trouble. Nothing to see here at all.
I hate to take issue with Dave but I think there is something to see. Notice how the same people that strongly insisted that Christ Church and NSA should take their lumps and not endlessly appeal the tax-exempt issue are the ones filing appeal after appeal here in the zoning arena. Though they would claim that this is 'for love of the code' and the tax appeals are the 'shameless acts of those who should know when they are licked'. Go figure.
no, you're not alone... I was wondering the same thing..